9 October 1998: Add message 5, message 6 and message 7

4 October 1998: Add message3 and message4

3 October 1998

    Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 21:57:19 -0400
    To: cypherpunks@toad.com
    From: John Young <jya@pipeline.com>
    Subject: Echelon's Origin

    The NSA released during the summer a Top Secret memorandum
    by Truman in 1952 establishing NSA as the lead COMINT agency
    for the USG:

       http://jya.com/nsa102452.htm

    After the dry description of decisionmaking procedures there
    are tantalizing pointers to the means NSA is to use to spy on
    foreign governments' communications, with reference to
    accommodating allies at NSA facilities -- read it carefully.

    Also, it's chilling to read that COMINT was so vital that
    Truman declared it to be free from any constraints placed
    on all other forms of intelligence. And the DIRNSA was given
    authority to command any military department or civilian
    agency for COMINT purposes.

    It would be helpful to learn what directives superceded this
    memo for authority to engage in global COMINT. Yes, we accept
    anonymous contributions from present and former COMINTers.

    Erich Moechel writes that France has its version of Echelon
    and wiretapping, and shares its fruits with Germany, in
    competition with the Echelon-Five:

       The French have built up an Echelon-like wiretapping system
       of their own, operating from Dordogne (France), French Guayana
       & Nouvelle Caledonie.

    Would anyone have more information on this program? And what
    about other Echelons around the world?

    From: Anonymous
    To: <jya@pipeline.com>
    Subject: COMINT
    Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998

    Probably one reason that COMINT was held in such "reverence" was the
    unparalleled successes of WW2 in deciphering both the Japanese and
    German traffic. Add to that, VENONA and the impression that must have
    made on Truman in revealing the horrid penetration of the US nuclear
    community by the Soviets during and after WW2. Up through the 60's
    COMINT'S successes were even greater. When Martin & Mitchell defected,
    they revealed that the US had broken almost all major and minor allies
    ciphers. While not a lot has been said about it until fairly recently,
    this was apparently in no small part due to the collusion of NSA with
    the Germans in producing Enigma variants, which were sold to naive
    foreign governments to encrypt their diplomatic, and possibly, military
    traffic. The one area in which still almost nothing ever is said was our
    own efforts to penetrate Russian ciphers. The amount of money allocated
    to NSA with "no questions asked" may be a hint to our success in that
    area. The level of success, if any, in this area is probably one of the
    few great secrets that still remain secret to this day.

    COMINT can also be widely overrated. At the highest levels, if success
    is profound you seldom can use the information for fear the source will
    be compromised. COMINT failed [but not because it didn't forewarn] on
    Chinese intervention in Korea. The US Navy's most EXTREMELY sensitive
    communications were read like a comic book by the Russians thanks to the
    Walker spy ring. This didn't do a thing in preventing the collapse of
    the Soviet Union. I find it amusing to witness the arrogance of the
    American government and its own COMINT community who were "certain" that
    in spite of all our success, that our own ciphers remained unreadable.
    They were wrong. As history has shown, this level of arrogance is
    typical for all governments.

    As to how far back ECHELON like systems have been in use, it's hard to
    be sure. Probably since the 60s.

    4 October 1998:

    Anonymous writes that the French-German interception program is known
    among intelligence circles and suggests that the queries on the program
    be made at EuroIntel98 as well as other intelligence conferences.

    4 October 1998:

    Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 19:22:36 +0200
    To: jya@pipeline.com
    From: interception <interception@ii-mel.com>
    Subject: http://jya.com/ECHELON-GO.htm

    French centers of electronic interceptions are in:

    1 - Agde
    2 - Rohrbach-les-Bitch
    3 - Domme
    4 - Mützig,
    5 - Alluets-Feucherolles
    6 - Celar (Army) (fax, scramble,...): 950 people in Rennes
    7 - Security Squad and electronic war (4 squads) in Metz
    8 - Plateau d'Albion: 150 people
    9 - Boat: Cargo le Bercy
    10- Bouar (Central African Républic)
    11- Solenzara (Corsica)
    12- St-Barthélemy (Guadeloupe)
    13- Réunion
    14- Mayotte, Djibouti
    15- Kourou Spatial Base (Guyana)
    16- United Arab Emirates
    17- New Caledonia

    In spite of Echelon http://www.ii-mel.com/interception/echelongb.htm
    French electronic interception are practiced in the USA.

    Masson
    http://www.ii-mel.com/interception

    9 October 1998:

    Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 14:42:11 -0400
    From: Sunder <sunder@brainlink.com>
    To: cypherpunks@algebra.com
    Subject: [Fwd: [Spooks] British Telecom-Menwith Hill connection]

    Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 23:32:36 -0500
    From: Bob Margolis <rttyman@wwa.com>
    To: Spooks <spooks@qth.net>
    Subject: [Spooks] British Telecom-Menwith Hill connection

    BT condemned for listing cables to US sigint station

         4 September, 1997

         A judge has lambasted BT for revealing detailed information about top secret high capacity cables feeding phone and
         other messages to and from a Yorkshire monitoring base. BT admitted this week that they have connected three digital
         optical fibre cables - capable of carrying more than 100,000 telephone calls at once - to the American intelligence base
         at Menwith Hill, near Harrogate.

         Menwith Hill is run by the US National Security Agency (NSA), which monitors the world's communication for US
         intelligence. NSA acknowledges that "the Hill" is the largest electronic monitoring station in the world. Over 1,200 US
         civilians and servicemen work round the clock at the base, intercepting and analysing communications mainly from
         Europe, Russia and the Middle East.

         Much of the information reaching the base comes from spy satellites. The base has 26 large white golfballs or "radomes"
         for space communications, making it an inescapable landmark in the Yorkshire dales.

         In a courtroom fiasco this week, British Telecom's solicitors first sent documents and a witness to give details of the
         cables to York Crown Court, where two women campaigners were appealing against conviction for trespassing at the
         station. The next day, they sent a second solicitor to attempt to silence their own witness and to withdraw evidence
         already given.

         Judge Jonathan Crabtree agreed to grant public interest immunity "BT had no business whatsoever to disclose anything
         of the kind", he said. He then ordered Mr R.G. Morris, BT's head of emergency planning, not to give any more evidence
         about the secret cables.

         After being privately briefed in his chambers by BT's second solicitor, the judge said that it was immaterial if Menwith
         Hill was spying on British citizens and commercial communications and may have cost British companies in billions of
         dollars of lost sales.

         "The national interest of the United Kingdom, even if if is conducted dishonestly, requires this to be kept
         secret", said Judge Crabtree.

         "The methods of communicating to and from Menwith Hill, whether military intelligence or commercial spying, is clearly
         secret information. The governments of the United States and United Kingdom do not want this information to be
         divulged", he explained.

         But he said that BT's list of secret cables in and out of Menwith Hill could not be withdrawn from the case. "Half the cat
         is out of the bag. The contents of the letter are now in public domain. I just don't know what BT think they were doing",
         he added.

         According to the letter, the Post Office (now BT) first provided two high capacity "wide bandwidth" circuits to Menwith
         Hill in 1975. They were connected on a coaxial cable to the BT network at Hunters Stones, a microwave radio station a
         few miles from the US base.

         During the 1970s and 1980s, almost all Britain's long-distance telephone calls were carried on the microwave network
         of which Hunters Stones is part. The existence of the cables connecting the network to Menwith Hill has been known
         since 1980, but the authorities have always refused to comment. BT now claims that the cables were connected directly
         to the United States via undersea cable, and did not link to other parts of the British system.

         The system was upgraded in 1992, says BT, when a new high capacity optical fibre cable was installed. This linked to a
         different part of the BT network, but was also carried directly to the United States via undersea cable. Since then, BT
         revealed, the capacity of the system has been trebled by adding two more optical fibre links. These could carry more
         than 100,000 simultaneous telephone calls.

         Lawyers for the two women campaigners, Helen John and Anne Lee, say they were astonished by the company's
         sudden change of heart. They said that the letter giving details of the cables may have been written for PR purposes, and
         appeared intended to suggest that BT wasn't helping NSA tap telephones. This, BT said, was a "misapprehension which
         is damaging to this company's reputation".

         BT staff also hinted that other British communications companies are supplying tapping capacity to the American base.
         Even as BT's solicitor was seeking to have his evidence prohibited, BT's witness was outside court giving further
         information to the women's solicitor implying that other British communications companies were also involved in the
         spying activities at Menwith Hill. "You should ask me about other companies", he said before he was silenced.

         Tony Benn - who was the Postmaster General at the time cables were first installed connecting Menwith Hill to the
         British communications network - also gave evidence. He said that although a Cabinet minister and privy councillor, he

         had been told nothing of the secret arrangements with the Americans.

         BT were ordered to pay the legal costs caused by their change of heart. The judge accused them of giving away
         confidential commercial information and national secrets. "If I had a burglar alarm system, I would now think twice about
         having it operated by BT", he said.

    ---
    Submissions should be sent to spooks@qth.net
    To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe spooks" to majordomo@qth.net

    9 October 1998:

    Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 19:13:35 -0700 (PWT)
    From: Max Inux <maxinux@bigfoot.com>
    To: cypherpunks@algebra.com
    Subject: Echelon @ Menwith Hill [was Re: [Fwd: BT + menwith conn

    These are some echelon and menwith hill related sites....  though the last
    one is the best anti-menwith hill one (and most informitive i think...

    http://www.fas.org/irp/facility/menwith.htm

    http://www.gn.apc.org/cndyorks/mhs/index.htm

    http://www.fas.org/irp/facility/onizuka.htm

    http://www.fas.org/irp/facility/index.html

    http://www.bsnet.co.uk/chris/nsa.txt

    http://www.fas.org/irp/facility/nroceeta.htm

    http://www.fas.org/irp/program/collect/an-flr-9.htm

    http://www.fas.org/irp/program/collect/flr9_380is.jpg

    http://users.neca.com/cummings/wullen.html

    MenWith:::(CND's site)

    http://www.gn.apc.org/cndyorks/mhs/index.htm

    I know for the most part the fas.org sites are redundant, but those are my
    favorite links rgwew

    -- Max Inux <maxinux@openpgp.net> Hey Christy!!! KeyID 0x8907E9E5
    Kinky Sex makes the world go round O R Strong crypto makes the world safe
           If crypto is outlawed only outlaws will have crypto
    Fingerprint(Photo Also): 259D 59F7 D98C CD73 1ACD 54Ea 6C43 4877 8907 E9E5

    9 October 1998:

    Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:30:21 +0200
    Message-Id: <199810082030.WAA12450@replay.com>
    From: Anonymous <nobody@replay.com>
    To: jya@jya.com, cypherpunks@toad.com

    Is there an offhand reference to ECHELON in the second paragraph?

    National Counterintelligence Center
    Counterintelligence News and Developments
    Volume 3 September 1998
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    http://www.nacic.gov/cind/SEPT98.htm

    More on French Spying

    The French magazine Le Point reported in mid-June that France
    systematically listens in on the telephone conversations and cable
    traffic of many businesses based in the United States and other
    nations. The article also reports the French Government uses a
    network of listening stations to eavesdrop and pass on commercial
    secrets to French businesses competing in the global economy.

    The article goes on to state that the French secret service, DGSE,
    has established listening posts in the Dordogne (Southern France)
    and also in its overseas territories, including French Guiana and
    New Caledonia. The article attributes to an unnamed "senior official
    within this branch of the French secret service" the claim, "This is
    the game of the secret war," adding that U.S. listening posts do the
    same. The magazine report says Germans who bought into the French
    Helios 1A spy satellite system are being given access to political
    and economic secrets as part of a Franco-German agreement to compete
    with a commercial information agreement between the United States
    and Britain.

    Additional contributions welcome: jy@jya.com

    For a summary of reports on ECHELON: http://jya.com/echelon-dc.htm